It is a mercy of living in God's world that wrongdoers and criminals tend to be sloppy. The Democratic impeachment effort headed by Rep. Adam Schiff is a prime example. Schiff's "whistleblower" is nothing more than a partisan Democrat operative who abused his White House role to leak and subvert diplomatic activities.

Trump is right: our tax dollars for IMF aid to Ukraine should not be trickling back to sons of U.S. politicians. Assuming the whistleblower's leaked identity is accurate, he is likely to be called himself as a fact witness due to his close association with Joe Biden during the critical period in this Biden family scandal.

The whistleblower's lawyer tweeted soon after the 2016 election, "coup has started" and "we will get rid" of President Trump. Are we surprised that zero House Republicans have joined in with this latest Democrat hoax?

Andy Vogan

Penn Laird

(126) comments

DeftCurmudgeon

"Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz has been scheduled to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Dec. 11, all but confirming the imminent release of his widely anticipated report into potential FBI and DOJ surveillance abuses against the Trump campaign.

A source told Fox News last month that Horowitz's upcoming report will shed light on why Connecticut U.S. Attorney John Durham's ongoing probe into potential FBI and Justice Department misconduct has transitioned into a full-fledged criminal investigation."

Popcorn time indeed.

Tick, tock...

Driller

Bishopsboy I'm glad that you have done so well that you have made a $100,000 under Con Don. As I have thought about what to write you have just showed me what to write. Your support for Con Don seems to be based on only one thing, your wallet. Probably the economy would have continued to grow under another President, Republican or Democrat and think what it would be without the tariffs. I'm glad the economy is doing so well, but indications are showing manufacturing and other indicators are slowing down. Con Don says another round of bailouts for the farmers probably around Thanksgiving. In all your posts you have never stated that you were concerned about the Country just that you always try to make the Republicans right. Con Don does lie and is a draft dodger and speaks nasty about people that do the same things he does or has done. I don't care about Con Don's impeachment, but I do care about the Russians interfering with our elections, doing things that benefit Putin, including holding up Ukrainian Aid. All I want, is to find out the Truth!!! I'm very concerned about his trying to tear down everything or everyone that disagrees with him, (FBI, Judges and some of his own appointees) Not everyone, as he claims is a liar, unpatriotic or a Never Trumper. He like everyone of us is wrong at some point and time and needs to be told. I'm very concerned about all the people that are in jail that are close to Con Don's orbit that have had ties to the Russians. He claims he is the most transparent President in history then why is he telling people not to testify and why doesn't he testify and clear all this stuff up. You have made your thinking on Democrats clear they are Pure Evil. Do you believe that Republicans that disagree with Con Don are "Human Scum" as he has said? As I have said there will be a Democratic President at some point and the Dems will control Congress, what will be your outlook when they let him go unchecked and make up BS to let him run wild. Instead of making up excuses for Con Don why don't you look At Con Don and realize he does have many faults.

LVW

Ha, if they ever got Trump to testify under oath about anything, he would surely be convicted of perjury for something. The man lies like no other.

bishopsboy

Sorry, LVW, your peep Hillary holds that honor with Shifty Schiff in a close second. Joe 30330 and Pocahontas are easily tied for third. In reality, President Trump is a choirboy by comparison.

sbsheridan

You're pulling "facts" out of the air! You have NO data to back up this ranking. Trump as a choirboy? LMAO

bishopsboy

Dearest Susan, Hillary started her legal career by lying about a 12-year old girl’s rape and hasn’t stopped lying since. It doesn’t get much sicker or demented than that. Schiff has been constantly lying about Trump for the last 3 years regarding Russian collusion and a Ukrainian non-quo quid pro quo. What kind of liar claims to be a Native American for career advancement when she clearly is not? And Creepy Joe bragged about his own Ukrainian quid pro quo but claims he did nothing wrong but Trump has. Your peeps seem to have a difficult time with the truth. This is just scratching the surface of their myriad lies.

bknjholl

BB, you engaging in a logical fallacy called "whataboutism" This does not refute SB's argument. Your argument is irrelevent. None of the information you offered defends Mr. Trump. In fact, you have offered no defense.

bishopsboy

Dearest Driller two things: First my use of $100k was plural not singular as in your post above. Secondly, you will get the truth, if I may quote Deft, “Durham is coming”. But I strongly suspect you won’t like what you hear.

Driller

bishopsboy Congratulations again for telling everyone how much money you have made since Con Don has been in office. Would you like a medal or a chest to pin it on. Again , you were unable to defend against what I said that you don't care about the country and only care about your wallet. You know that Con Don is a liar and a Draft Dodger and what makes it worse he and his lap dogs are smearing career professionals that have served the country for 30 or 40 years. You and the cheerleaders keep saying "Durham is coming", that again has nothing to do with this Ukrainian Deal. If Durham gets to the truth I hope he gets to all the truth and maybe you won't like what you hear. New polls now show 70 per cent of people say what Con Don did was wrong.!! Republicans keep moving the goal posts from no quid pro quo to yes a quid pro quo, but it is alright. Then just hearsay but today Con Dons and Pompeo's appointees will testify and show what Con Don did, this will end the hearsay because these people were on the call.. Why aren't you complaining about the phone that Con Don and Sonderland were using? Republicans know what Con Don, Pompeo and Rudy was doing was wrong, but they are spineless. I know that I am wasting my time trying to get you to open your eyes and see that Con Don and friends are just working for themselves and not the Country. Keep turning a blind eye to what Con Don and Putin are doing and maybe you'll get paid in Russian Rubles.

DeftCurmudgeon

Rep. John Ratcliffe, R-Texas, said on Sunday that he believes the upcoming Inspector General report on the counterintelligence investigation into Russia and the Trump campaign is going to be damning evidence of wrongdoing by FBI and Justice Department officials and could lead to a full-fledged criminal investigation.

“It doesn’t take 500 pages to tell the inspector general that everything was done properly,” Ratcliffe said during an interview on Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures.” “The IG report is going to find that there were problems.”

Should be fun.

LVW

That fool Trump continues to make it tough on his "supporters" (codependents) in Congress. Attacking Yovanovitch during her testimony left Congressional Republicans flabbergasted. Even Liz Cheney, for the love of God, said Trump shouldn't have done that. They must be thinking, "take the man's phone away!"

bishopsboy

Dear LVW, you can’t blame President Trump for fighting back against sham witnesses in a sham impeachment inquiry ran by an ardent Trump-hater and congenital liar with a very small neck. I’m glad President Trump hits back. The Democrats have been demonizing Republicans for a long time and they just take it when they should push back. Yovanovitch wasn’t doing her job so President Trump called her on it. That’s what he should do.

LVW

Bb: Nonsense. If what you say is true, explain why Trump's poor Republican enablers were upset over his childish tweets about Yovanovitch. The gap between your opinion and reality is wider than ever.

bishopsboy

Dear LVW, President Trump’s tweets were spot on but some people, even some of his, have difficulty with bluntness. My opinion is in perfect harmony with reality, however, you may want to go back to studying the topology of tin foil hats instead of wearing one! [smile]

Driller

bishopsboy I see Pelosi has invited Con Don to testify in person or even give written testimony. If Con Don wants to end all this, all he has to do is go in and testify or let Mulvaney, Pompeo, or even Rudy testify. Many on this page have condemned, this past weeks, people that testified as Democrats never Trumpers, Liars and worse. Let me remind you these are career government officials that have given 30 or 40 years of their life to this country working for both Republican and Democratic Presidents. It amazes me you and the cheerleaders think it is alright for a known liar and draft dodger to talk badly about a purple heart winner. You claim Yovanovitch wasn't doing her job, why did some Republicans praise her for the great job she was doing? If Con Don wanted to recall her just say so, don't smear her and intimidate her. Don't forget Rudy"s buddies have been indicted by the SDNY. Rudy says he isn't worried about the Trump bus running over him , he has an insurance policy. I'm sure he does because he knows what he has done on behalf of Con Don. You act if the Democrats are the only ones demonizing Republicans, may I remind you of your own words, Democrats are pure evil!!! When I tried to get you to backtrack you doubled down. Keep trying to think of excuses as now the Republican aides start to tell what they know.

bishopsboy

Dearest Driller, you constantly complain that President Trump is a liar, draft dodger, etc. But you fail to grasp that despite all his warts, he’s been doing a great job as President. His methods are unconventional but the system is so messed up right now by BOTH parties that it takes an outsider street fighter like Trump to straighten things out. If you would open up your eyes a little you might see that President Trump is doing good for you and your loved ones and all Americans who believe in hard work and the founding principles of our country and who value individual freedom and liberty. If you think the socialist free stuff for everyone path the Democrats seem h3ll bent to follow is going to be good for you or your family or friends you are beyond insane. No thanks, I'll keep the $100,000’s I’ve made off the Trump economy and I’ll keep cheerleading for him. The Democrats have nothing to offer except misery, poverty, and subjugation.

LVW

LOL @ "great job as President." Good one!

bishopsboy

Dear LVW, you got it man! Now repeat that over and over again....😊

bknjholl

Great job Mr. President. Mass shooting yesterday; Mass shooting today; North Korea responded to a tweet by saying no further meetings unless they get something substantial in return; Russians just took command of an American Airbase in Syria with no shots fired. Merry Christmas.

bknjholl

And... there are more than 100,000 children in immigration-related custody in violation of international law. Deplorable this is...

sbsheridan

How about "pushing back" by testifying under oath? Instead, he sends out ridiculous tweets criticizing the physical characteristics of those who have criticized him -- something you seem to have imitated.

bishopsboy

Dearest Susan, Adam Schiff does have a small pencil neck. Look at his photos. Joe Biden is creepy. I didn’t him to cop feels off little girls. Do you want me to lie about them?

Diana

bishopsboy..so you have no problem when Trump deliberately walked in on young girls in various states of undress at the Miss Teen USA pageant? I know, I know..he owned the pageant...does not make it right. BTW..remember he could grab women by the p***y and they would let him...SMH...and yet you judge other, and let this man slide...

billnonymous

Diana, let us not forget that Democrats let it slide that Bill Clinton, as a sitting US president and not a private citizen, took a young woman inside the Oval Office, used her privates as his own personal cigar moistener, then instructed her to get under the desk and get busy on his Willy Clinton while he phoned up a US Senator, then used her dress as a DNA mop. You also excused the fact that Bill Clinton lied, under oath, to Congress, about it, too. If Trump lied under oath to Congress, what would you suggest his punishment be? Same punishment as Clinton? I doubt it. So get back to us when Trump does something WORSE than that while president.

billnonymous

tweeting out that she wasn't good at her job is not an "attack". I know liberals have been instructed by their sheep masters in the fake news media to bleat "attack" over and over again, but it doesn't make it true. We can all read the tweet, no attack. We can all read the transcripts, no quid pro quollusioniberyortion or whatever the research study groups are insisting is the crime these days. Keep swinging away though, the Democrats .000 average is not going up anytime soon.

LVW

Keep up those right-wing talking points!

billnonymous

point out to me which words constitute an "attack". I could use a good laugh!!

LVW

"Everywhere billnonymous went turned bad." That okay with you?

billnonymous

typical liberal reply. well, I got no problem, ace I don't feel attacked at all. now, back to MY ORIGINAL QUESTION. Point out to me where IN TRUMP'S TWEET that you consider an ATTACK. Are you seriously saying him saying, pretty much truthfully, that everywhere she went turned bad is an "attack"? Seriously?

LVW

BillyYouPoorThing: Yes, of course it was an attack. Trump did his usual thing: if he perceives someone as not being flattering to him, he attempts to belittle them, like an insecure teenage boy. In this case, the obvious implication was that she was to blame for whatever transpired in the countries of her postings. As if that weren't bad enough, he did this in real time during her testimony, an unprecedented move. That is why so many Republicans were very uncomfortable with Trump's actions. If you weren't so far up Trump's backside, you would see this. Don't you get tired of doing handsprings trying to (unsuccessfully) defend this buffoon?

billnonymous

That's not an attack and the only reason you think that is because of your TDS. If Yovanovich tweeted the exact same things about Trump, you wouldn't call it an attack, at all, and don't even try to pretend you would, hypocrite. Get it? Let me get this straight, Democrats and the fake news media can excoriate Trump in the press and belittle him and be unflattering to him and that gets your praise but when Trump does the exact same thing, he gets your scorn? I don't know, sounds incredibly hypocritical to me. Do you get upset that Democrats and the fake news media are unflattering to and belittle Trump? No you don't, you celebrate it. Listen, I get it, you are who you are, you do handsprings making it very clear that you have no problem with your blatant hypocrisy. You wear it like a badge of honor. You are consistent if nothing else. But you're not kidding anyone. Pointing out your shameless, blatant hypocrisy is not defending Trump, again, that's your TDS clouding your ability to think clearly.

LVW

Billyboy: I can't tell if you are intellectually dishonest or just obtuse, but I don't have time for either.

billnonymous

LVW-boy I can't tell if you have reached the limit of rational thought or if you just know what you're trying to pass off as an attack is ridiculous, laughably ridiculous, but as long as you keep replying trying to defend it, you do have time.

sbsheridan

Yes, it is an attack. Performance appraisals of one's employees should not be made public. And I honestly don't get the "great job" line. All I can see are increasingly deep divisions among our citizens, fanned by Trump, and shreds of former alliances littering the landscape.

DANT

billnonymous, sb says its an attack, so there....bwahahaha!

billnonymous

You call that a performance appraisal? wow? seriously? comical. Funny, I have yet to see a single TDS suffering liberal disagree with his assessment. Just that he dared used his freedom of speech, something liberals have come to absolutely DETEST in America unless it's THEM. The divisions are relentlessly fanned by the lying fake news media and liberals, you don't see it because, you know, forests and trees and all of that...

Diana

Billy...please show me where I excused the fact that Clinton lied when he wasn't even mentioned in my post., nor was anything said about Trump lying.Lewinsky wasn't a 15 year old girl when she and Clinton had consensual sex at that time. He lied to Congress about that and he paid the price. But you and your ilk just go right on believing that it's ok for a grown man to walk in on undressed teen girls,and to grab a woman by the p***y. No man should do that!! Pathetic.. Nowhere have I seen that you thought that is wrong. You keep deflecting and always try to mischaracterize what is actually said. Carry on with your BS..Im sure you will have a good long retort, but it shows the moral compass of some people.

billnonymous

Clinton paid the price? How, Democrats said lying to Congress under oath was not that big of a deal. (Though it's a very very serious offense now for some reason)

If he has walked in on teen girls, why did no girl or parent ever file one single charge against him? hmmm, all these females with all of their accusations and yet not one charge filed, they'll tell their story to the press but ask them to press charges and repeat it under oath and they're like "uh, you know what, no thanks, I'm good" What else do I need to know?

As for your opinion on Trump's other comment, well then you MUST agree that no 'opportunitic' woman should tell a rich man he can feel free to stick his hand up or down her dress right? And they certainly shouldn't drop to their knees the second a door closes either because, you know, he's rich. You DO know that MANY, MANY women very happily do just that, right? OK with you? Of course it is, your moral compass? Buried. Oh wait, now it's about Trump, out comes the compass, so amazing how quickly you lose and find it!

Diana

Billy...you did exactly what I knew you would do...Deflect and not answer the question. So obviously you think it is ok for Trump to have entered the room and seen the teen girls undressed. As for lawsuits, I seem to recall Trump said he was going to sue the 12 women that accused him of sexual assault. Did He? as of now he still hasn't sued them. Wonder why? Was he scared of their story?

Sorry, but he got caught saying what he could do to women. And just because he's rich..doesn't give him the right to do what he said. Again you obviously believe he has the right to do this. These weren't opportunistic women...they were teens. And DO know that MANY MANY men think like you, which is sad. I have never lost my moral compass as you seem to when it comes to Trump.. But carry on....

DeftCurmudgeon

This whole impeachment hoax is just the follow on to the "collusion" hoax and the Dems have rushed it because the DC swamperati have gotten wind of what's coming.

Durham.

And he won't be using anonymous cowardblowers, derp state moles or Brennan's pajama boy leakers.

He'll be packing... indictments.

LVW

Keep hope alive!

Comment deleted.
LVW

Speaking of which ... today, when I was in downtown H'burg, I saw a guy riding a bike with a rifle slung over his shoulder and a dog riding in a box on the back of the bike with an orange vest on. Was that you? (The guy, not the dog.)

DeftCurmudgeon

I got "deleted"... LOL

Nope, not me - got dogs but I don't ride them on bikes... with rifles.

LVW

You must've gotten deleted because of the "bike n*****" comment. I guess they don't know our history well enough to know I'm not offended. Sweet of them, though. I wonder if I'll get deleted if I call you a gun cracker again. Or even better, GunCracker'HO.

bishopsboy

Deft, you have never mistreated anyone, much less deserve to have any comment deleted. I, on the other hand, should have been kicked off a long time ago. This is a miscarriage of justice.

billnonymous

we all know who is doing too, typical liberals with their phony, hypocritical, selective morality.

LVW

Sure billyboy, all those flaming liberals at the DN-R. Right.

Driller

DeftCurmudgeon and cheerleaders You claim impeachment and the Mueller report was a hoax, thank God it is a hoax, or Con Don won't have any buddies left that aren't in jail or convicted felons. Con Don will be packing pardons.

DeftCurmudgeon

Joke off.

newshound

And Federal criminal jumpsuits one especially designed for Brennan featuring a hammer and sickle on the back.

billnonymous

Yovanovitch in her opening statement: "The Obama administration never raised the issue of Burisma or Hunter Biden with me."

Yovanovitch to Stefanik: The Obama administration coached me on what to say about Hunter Biden and Burisma.

So she lied in her opening statement. Luckily for her, when Democrats lie under oath, they're just being courageous, for everyone else, it's a felony.

newshound

The deposed Ambassador is a flaming liberal so fibbing is an innate habit.

Driller

newshound How do you know she is a flaming liberal. You must be watching Fox where there is a bunch of lying Con Don supporters.

billnonymous

Comrade Niller, she lied under oath, twice, what should her punishment be?

bishopsboy

I sense a TDS hissy fit coming from him over the truth about Yovanovitch’s perjury, newsy.

bishopsboy

Sorry that should have been billy, not newsy.

DeftCurmudgeon

Just an aside...

If you have to keep moving the goalposts on what constitutes an impeachable "scandal", you're losing.

bknjholl

Deft, you are correct although not in the way you think. An example of moving the goalposts would be Lindsey Graham first saying that if evidence could be found of an actual quid pro quo, that would cause him to take the impeachment seriously. His next position was the proceedings are a sham. The defense of the President has been all over the place. The Democrats are building a rock solid case, brick by brick. Bribery is impeachable.

billnonymous

Can either of you (Taylor/Kent) cite an impeachable offense? no answer.

Yovanovich, have you witnessed ANY crimes at all? No.

What are they building with those bricks? An outhouse?

Meanwhile, Republicans have been gathering evidence from the three witnesses about Hunter Biden and Burisma, all admitting Hunter's role was concerning, cautioned Joe it was a conflict of interest, that Trump was right to mention Burisma in the call (Kent), that Zlochevsky's role should be investigated (Zlo being the one who arranged for upwards of $3 million to be transferred to accounts controlled by the sitting VPOTUS' son Hunter and the sitting Sec of States son in law, Chris Heinz before fleeing the country with the rest of our money that Obama/Biden arranged to be delivered. Nothing to see there, right? If it was Pence's son and Pompeo's son in law there *would* be something though, right? Yeah, we get it, hypocrites!!

DANT

Rock solid case....you can't be serious. You are either a disgruntled Trump hater who will say and do anything to shame the president or you are a totally inept story teller looking for a reason to be relevant!

Driller

Deftcurmudgeon You're right moving the goalpost means you're losing. First there was no quid pro quo then it was well if it was a quid pro quo it didn't matter because nothing happened. Then there was no first hand information and only hearsay, now that there is Sondlands aid testifying what will be the next excuse? Wait and see what happens this week. Maybe another of Con Don's buddies will be indicted or even put in jail

Driller

Bishopsboy and cheerleaders I've said before Con Don will never be taken out of office regardless of what is proven against him, The Republicans like Lindsey Graham have already made up their mind, he won't even read what information is available. I won't be so sure the Democratic party will be in the dustbin by 2024 and am pretty sure it will be alive and well in the state of VA. Just a reminder to you and cheerleaders one day the Democrats will be in charge and have the Presidency and they might do what the Republicans have done with Con Don no checks on anything. Then we will see how much beefing you will do.

billnonymous

Democrats have been using focus groups to determine what crime to accuse Trump of! This is how unbelievably pathetic they've become. Now you know why, all of a sudden, Democrats are bleating the word 'bribery' to their sheep

From WaPo:

"The shift came after the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee conducted focus groups in key House battlegrounds in recent weeks, testing messages related to impeachment. Among the questions put to participants was whether “quid pro quo,” “extortion” or “bribery” was a more compelling description of Trump’s conduct. According to two people familiar with the results, which circulated among Democrats this week, the focus groups found “bribery” to be most damning. The people spoke on the condition of anonymity because the results have not been made public.

Clown show!!!

bknjholl

No Billo, it's politics.

billnonymous

Trump's approval rating on Monday: 46%

Trump's approval rating Friday: 50%

No way out for Dems, they've got no choice but to see their trainwreck through to the disastrous end. By the time the Republicans are done cross examining the rest of the witnesses, the Senate will have more than enough evidence to open an investigation into Biden Jr and Burisma. I don't even see this impeachment mess getting out of the House at this point. Still no offense named and all 3 witnesses say aid was released without condition and none can name an impeachable offense, something the Dems can't do either and should have stated clearly by now what the offense is that this hearing is about. They are literally *still* looking. Clown show.

Driller

Comrade Bill if this is a clown show you should be glad it is going on. It's a shame they can't get the Main Clowns(Con Don,Rudy, Pompeo and others) to testify under oath and end this Clown Show. I think you are wrong, it will get out of the House and the Republicans in the Senate will be made to vote. If Con Don was only going to hire only the best people, how did so many Never Trumpers, liars and convicted felons get hired by this administration? Still waiting, didn't hear from you when I asked you what you would do the Dreamers?

billnonymous

Republicans couldn't get Obama's henchmen to testify in the Black Panther voter intimidation case, the party crashers scandal, for the Solyndra documents, Kagan’s ACA conflicts, he refused to allow David Simas to testify, refused to allow his Treasury officials to testify about ACA changes, refused to allow Ben Rhodes to testify, refusing to allow Lois Lerner to testify, and Eric Holder, too. What was your reaction to them not testifying, same reaction you have about Rudy and Pompeo? No, it's the exact opposite because you're a shameless hypocrite. I already answered the Dreamer question, as usual, you're just not that observant, sadly, I'm used to that with you.

Driller

.Billnonymous Since I'm not that observant I don't remember anything you posted about the Dreamers, it must have been spun that I couldn't see where you said anything. Please humor me and post what you said about what you would do with the Dreamers. Why don't you want these people to testify because you know that they are guilty!!

billnonymous

It was a direct response to you. I never said I didn't want them to testify, where did you get that from, is that another one of your short sighted conclusions you love to hump to in a overzealous attempt to call me out for something I never said...again?? Or just not being observant, again? I pointed out over a dozen people that Obama refused to let testify just like Trump is doing now. Were you "ok" with that? That's a rhetorical question, of course you were, so why not now? Why is ok for Obama to block people from testifying but not Trump?

newshound

A colossal waste of time and taxpayer money ONCE AGAIN orchestrated by liberal slob politicians to attempt to influence the next presidential election, pure and simple.

This ex-Ambassador obviously is a pawn used by the lead flaming liberal, Schiff--a pig of a politician.

billnonymous

Do you have any info on Trump taking a bribe? No.

Do you have any info regarding any criminal activity concerning Trump? No.

Do you have any first hand knowledge of "the call"? No.

Did Obama know about Biden/Jr and Burisma? Yes

Now we have three people, under oath, all testifying there was nothing criminal or impeachable.

bknjholl

Billo, Trump was doing the bribing, NOT taking the bribe.

The only thing protecting Trump from criminal prosecution for his money laundering, witness intimidation, obstruction of justice and bribery is the DOJ memo saying that a sitting president can’t be impeached until he’s out of office.

Who is “you?” If you are referring to “hearsay” see the many comments herein about obstruction. It’s Trump’s choice to order the folks with first hand knowledge of the call not to testify. There is of course Lt. Col. Vindman.

Agree. Irrelevant.

Incorrect. The three witnesses you refer two are fact witnesses. It is not in their purview to assign criminality or decide about impeachability. That’s the job of Congress.

billnonymous

You liberals never once mentioned the word bribery until the Democrat created focus groups concluded "bribery" was the most effective term. Next thing you know, all the sheep are bleating "bribery!" PATHETIC. They are NOT fact witnesses because they ALL admitted they witnessed nothing in regards to the "phone call", they ALL made it clear they were RELAYING what they heard and had NO first hand knowledge. NOT witnesses. Collusion didn't work, obstruction didn't work, quid pro quo didn't work, bribery is not going to work and witness intimidation isn't going to work either. But it sure is fun watching the witnesses ALL admit aid was released with no conditions. Will Democrats accuse their own witnesses of lying??

bknjholl

Billo,

Focus groups are universal.

Trump attempted Bribery.

Taylor’s own words, “I am nobody’s ‘star’ witness. It is not my job to determine impeachability, only to tell the committee what I know.”

Trump is obstructing first hand knowledge.

The case for impeachment is being built slowly and carefully.

The aid was delayed and ONLY released when Trump was busted twice. Once by the DOD, once by the whistleblower.

Pass the popcorn.

billnonymous

Focus groups are universal, sure. But focus groups who are formed specifically so they can be fed three different offenses and are, literally, asked to choose which one the Democrats should use to impeach a sitting president? I don't think so. That's beyond pathetic, it reeks of desperation and you know it. Taylor's own words: "I have NO first hand knowledge" and "aid was released **without** conditions" Trump is NOT obstructing anything, if the Dems want people to appear, Schiff can compel them. But he won't because A. he knows they would be far more damaging to Democrats than Trump and B. it "sells" better to the 'uneducated' to claim obstruction. To everyone else, clown show. Obstruction is just another word the Dems fed to the fake news media to bleat to their sheep. No evidence, just accusations and at the end of this clown show, that's all they will still have.

Was it obstruction when Obama refused to let his staff testify in the Black Panther voter intimidation case? Or the party crasher scandal? Or in the Solyndra case? or for the Solyndra documents? or over Kagan’s ACA conflicts? Or when he refused to allow David Simas to testify? Or when he refused to allow his Treasury officials to testify about ACA changes? Or when he refused to allow Ben Rhodes to testify? Or when he refused to allow Lois Lerner to testify? Or Eric Holder?? Is it only when Trump does it that you find that phony moral compass of yours?? Sheer hypocrisy. You weren't upset then, but you sure are now, right?

bknjholl

Billo, whataboutism and process arguments will not win the day. As I said, pass the popcorn. This is going to play out in it's own time.

billnonymous

Whataboutism is what liberals say when they can't face their own blatantly obvious, shameless, pathetic, hypocrisy. You only kid yourself when you use that word, it's like waving the white flag and saying, "I can't admit I'm a pathetic hypocrite so 'whataboutism!'" Nice try, though!

bknjholl

Billo - whataboutism is generally considered by rhetoricians to be a form of “tu quoque” or “you too” in latin. It involves charging your accuser with whatever it is you’ve just been accused of rather than refuting the truth of the accusation made against you. Tu quoque is considered to be a logical fallacy, because whether or not the original accuser is likewise guilty of an offense has no bearing on the truth value of the original accusation.

Whataboutism adds a twist to tu quoque by directing its energies into establishing an equivalence between two or more disparate actions, thereby defaming the accuser with the insinuation that their priorities are backwards.

Interestingly, the use of whataboutism was a strong component of the propaganda machine of the former Soviet Union as far back as the Stalin era when they responded to criticism of human rights atrocities with a list of alleged atrocities committed by the Western powers.

Using logical fallacies in your argument is not persuasive.

bknjholl

Previous comment source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/whataboutism-origin-meaning

billnonymous

did you look up hypocrisy while you were there??

Tell me why you had no problem with Obama blocking, literally, at least one dozen people from testifying in investigations, but you have this huge problem with Trump doing the exact same thing? Don't hide behind the dictionary, explain yourself.

bknjholl

Billo, Mr. Obama is a private citizen and not relevant to this thread. Your personal historical grudges are of no interest to me.

Your constant concern about hypocrisy is a fool's errand as LVW once said, "It's a door that swings both ways." And as I've pointed out, it's a false argument that seeks to avoid the issue at hand. Carry on...

billnonymous

Yet another pathetic, cheap excuse from you. Sure, Obama is a private citizen NOW but when he told the Republicans to pound sand and that his staff was not obeying the lawful subpeonaes, he was president, just like Trump is now. I get it, though, you simply do not have the guts to admit you have a HUGE problem with Trump doing EXACTLY what Obama did in the past. I get it, but you only kid yourself. Obama does it = Good. Trump does it = Bad. Hypocrisy level = 100%

LVW

The Trump administration stinks like a whorehouse at low tide. He attempted to use the power of his office to get dirt on a political rival, and he is obstructing justice left and right. Do these things amount to impeachable offenses? Dunno. I think the Dems should just have censured Trump and then focused on beating him in the 2020 elections, since whatever comes of these impeachment hearings, they will not remove Trump from office. And one other thing: no matter who testifies and no matter what evidence is presented, the Trump groupies will stand with him.

bishopsboy

Dear LVW, your second sentence is blatantly false - as a thinking liberal, you're much, much too smart to fall for Schiff's nonsense. Your last sentence is correct because the whole impeachment hearing is based on third and fourth hand hearsay that would never stand up in a real court of law.

billnonymous

Much like the Democrats and their star witnesses, you're just blowing hot air. You claim he did all of these things, but there is no proof. None. It's just empty accusations and personal opinions that amount to nothing. We finally have people under oath and none of them can state what is impeachable, they've ALL said they were relaying what they had heard from others. And they ALL said aid was released without conditions. You're standing by the party that is trying to impeach a sitting president based on Casper the Friendly Whistleleaker's error filled report, using a, even you have to admit, kangaroo court run by Keystone Cops. Remember, what is happening now is what is supposed to be happening AFTER the impeachable offense is produced, not to FIND one. Typical pathetic Democrat tactics, they are the sorest losers in the history of the world. They need a giant pacifier to suck on for the next five years, even that won't soothe them!

newshound

No no LVW, that pungent aroma is from the swamp creatures profusely sweating as they realize their sophomoric attempt to "impeach" the President is a failure and soon, the real dirt will be delivered on the imposter "whistleblower" a flaming liberal ,Yale grad, millennial operative who purportedly engaged in domestic "espionage" at the behest of Obama and Brennan.

LVW

Sorry boys, you are wrong. Everybody except Trump and his disciples are telling the same story, that he used the power of his office to get dirt on Biden. Just because nobody has it on tape doesn't mean it didn't occur. Since doing something like that is exactly what Trump would do, I don't understand why anybody is surprised. No, the only question is whether or not this is impeachable. People disagree on that. The best defense, as I said when I posed Lowry's piece, is that nothing came of it. I say again, they should have just censured him and then moved on to do their usual jobs. I fear that these impeachment proceedings will only motivate those poor misguided Trump supporters, and the comments on this site from the Trump zombies provides evidence of that fear.

bishopsboy

Well, LVW, Schiff’s 3 star witnesses all said they had no proof of wrongdoing and the Ukrainian President said there was no wrongdoing. Step away from the stupid crowd and deal with your TDS.

billnonymous

So Democrats are going to tell the Senate to have a trial because it *sounds* like something Trump would do? Comical!! Is that how you want the next Democrat president judged by Republicans?

bknjholl

Wrongdoers and criminals do indeed get sloppy. "It was incoherent, They seem to be *incapable* of forming a quid pro quo." - Senator Lindsey Graham.

It is a federal crime to expose the identity of a whistleblower. In this case the whistleblower followed procedures TO THE LETTER and his/her actions were legal, patriotic, and courageous.

Agree that conflicts of interest by sons and daughters of famous politicians are unacceptable.

Lawyers as private citizens enjoy the rights and privileges of citizenship. Lawyers defending their clients are responsible for the legal defense of their clients.

DeftCurmudgeon

Except Schiff stick had already outed Eric Ciaramella who's not really a "whistleblower" simply one of Brennan's little pajama boy moles.

Durham is coming...

bknjholl

And then there's the disturbing information that pretty much everything written by the whistleblower has been verified by multiple witnesses... sticky that is....

DANT

holl, What information? Did you mean second and third hand information that no one can verify or prove? "I overheard a phone call conversation" is not information, its someone lying under oath for a political agenda or hoping to hide their own corruption....come on man!

bknjholl

Dant, this is not about just a phone conversation. Taylor and King were involved in events on the ground over a period of months around and after the time of the phone call. They saw it happening and came forward with their concerns. I repeat, this is not about just one phone call. It's about a several month long effort to shake down the Ukrainian President for political favors and future wealth. The onion is getting peeled and there's more to come.

Just a passing comment. The current probe into the possible election tampering by Ukraine in 2016 is getting a lot of attention and the testimony about it this week pretty much proves that it never happened. It was Russia.

billnonymous

It is a federal crime ONLY for the IG handling the report to release a whistleblower's name. Anyone else can name him and many websites, two Senators, and at least 4 or 5 talking heads have mentioned his name with zero repercussions. His name is out there despite the likes of Google and Facebook desperately trying to scrub his name from their sites. The only person who apparently still doesn't know his identity is Schiff! As for the report, it was filed using a form that was altered and backdated to the previous month. The ICIG has acknowledged, under oath, that it was changed and backdated but he refused to explain why. Schiff has admitted his office was in contact with the whistleblower, which is a violation of the act by both parties. The whistleblower did not tell the ICIG he had been in contact with Schiff, which is also a violation of the law. TO THE LETTER, HUH? I don't think so, but nice try, though. Schiff also hid the report from Republicans, in violation of House rules. On top of that, intelligence whistleblower reports like the one filed do NOT apply to presidents and do NOT apply to presidents speaking with other foreign leaders. But none of those things matter to the clowns running the deep state coup that is fooling absolutely nobody at this point.

bknjholl

Point taken. Nevertheless, traditionally, there has been no need for a federal statute protecting whistleblowers because it was generally known that it was an important watchdog role in the process of regulating both government and private corporation behavior. No need that is until this President, who has smashed norms like this, has called for the outing of this Whistleblower.

DANT

billnonymous You are making these liberal commenters look silly, they have no argument and your posts have successfully shut down every response they try to give.....good work!

billnonymous

Thanks, I'm just trying to use the words of the "witnesses who witnessed nothing" and of course, comparing their hypocritical silence when Obama did the same things Trump is doing now. Love how their phony moral compasses all suddenly appear when it's Trump! Alas, I have tailgating to do and a JMU game to attend, so I'll have to pop back in later for more shenanigans!

DANT

This is the biggest joke I've seen so far. The Kavanaugh hearings were dirty and nasty beyond belief. The senate Democrats tried (in front of the world) to smear a man and his family with no proof of any wrong doing. Now they are using hearsay b.s. to try and impeach a sitting president who has done nothing wrong and again no proof of anything! The Democrats don't care if they impeach or not, this is about distraction from the Bidens and the corruption that was going on under Obama. They are asking questions that have no relevance but are only asked to harm President Trump. People should be up in arms over this scam and total embarrassment of our political system!

bknjholl

No actually Mr Trump did it better yesterday when the GOPers were falling all over themselves to be nice to Masha. Then the President weighed in... Ugly it was...

You should give up on the whole hearsay argument. Mr. Trump has ordered those with first hand knowledge not to testify. That, of course, is obstruction and can be added to the counts of impeachment.

DeftCurmudgeon

Quick civics refresher - the elected President of the U.S. sets American foreign policy not the derp state employees of the State Dept. no matter how important they think they are.

And the President can send Darth Vader abroad to advance that policy if he so chooses.

billnonymous

Just like Obama sent Darth Biden to bribe/extort the corrupt Ukraine president to fire the prosecutor investigating corruption at Burisma in exchange for $1 billion in US Aid. How much US Aid to Ukraine under Obama went to Burisma? Untold millions. How much of what was given to Burisma went to Hunter Biden (the sitting VPOTUS' son) AND Chris Heinz (the sitting SEC OF ST.'s son in law)? Who were BOTH board members of Burisma. Upwards of $3.1 million dollars flowed from Burisma to their bank accounts according to documents provided by anti-corruption minded Ukraine investigators. Democrats say, oh that was just Biden "doing the right thing"! Imagine if that was Pence, Pence's son, and Pompeo's son in law who did that? Oh the hypocritical outrage we would have to listen to!!

bknjholl

Wrong question... What if it's Mr. Trump's kids who are involved in very profitable conflicts of interest in foreign countries? Oh, snap...

Wrong premise. Mr Biden was carrying out the foreign policy of the USA on behalf of the country and its allies in getting a prosecutor fired who WAS NOT investigating corruption.

billnonymous

The only problem with your claims is that's not what subsequent Ukraine investigations have turned up, now is it? Even the NY Times doesn't agree with your claims. Artem Sytnyk, Serhiy Leshchenko, guilty of colluding with Democrats to get dirt on Trump and his campaign. The prosecutor who was fired testified in corruption hearings that the Ukraine president personally visited him and told him the reason he was being fired was because the US was withholding $1,000,000,000 in aid until he was. Ukraine president admitted quid pro quo by Joe, but noting but phony excuses from the likes of you. "carrying out foreign policy" Delusional!!! Obama/Biden were just as corrupt as Poroshenko.

bknjholl

Correct, but in this case it wasn't American foreign policy. It was his political re-election policy. The State Dept in this case was placed in the difficult and heroic position of defending the actual foreign policy of the United States.

billnonymous

The State Department? Seriously? The man who ran that department, John Kerry, has a son in law, Chris Heinz, who, with Hunter Biden, the son of a sitting VPOTUS, had this great idea to take their zero experience in finance and open an investment firm with an old college buddy. Then they both find themselves, with zero experience in Ukraine and energy, on the board of directors of the most crooked energy company in one of the world's most corrupt countries. ok, it's possible I guess...not! Burisma just happened to receive a nice chunk of that billion dollar US Aid Biden BRIBED the president of Ukraine with. ok, maybe they needed the help, not. After that, Heinz and Hunter BOTH start receiving board or director paychecks AND "consultant" checks, totaling over $3 million dollars, all flowing into the new investment company. That has been documented and Ukraine investigators have released the long list of payments Burisma made to them both. Again, if Pence's son and Pompeo's son in law did the exact same thing, tell me you would have NO problem with it, I could use a good laugh today! Tell me how heroic Pompeo would be then! Foreign policy, my 'behind'!!

bknjholl

Billo, whataboutism is a logical fallacy. Your comments are irrelevant to the impeachment proceedings.

billnonymous

bkn, you come up with the lamest excuses for your hypocrisy. you are only self soothing and trying to validate/excuse your own hypocrisy. It may work for you but it's falls completely flat with me. Savvy?

billnonymous

So far, Taylor has admitted that he has never met or spoke with the president, was not listening in on the call, had only hearsay, that ‘withheld aid’ was never discussed in the THREE meetings he had with the new Ukraine president, that aid was delivered and no investigation occurred. Kent said he would like to see the investigation into payments from Burisma be looked into again; said Trump was right to mention Burisma during his call; said we have a treaty with Ukraine to investigate corruption; said he felt Hunter’s board appointment was a confllct, that aid was delivered without conditions. Neither could name an impeachable offense. Today we get a woman who has been caught lying under oath about her communications with Democrat operatives and who was removed from her position for doing things like, according to Kent's testimony yesterday, maintaining a "do not prosecute list," and monitoring US press members. Clown show.

bknjholl

It is not necessary or relevant that Mr. Taylor did not speak or meet with Mr Trump as he was dealing with events on the ground in real time.

The talk of hearsay is ONLY because those who have direct knowledge of the events in Ukraine have been ordered to not submit testimony or documentation. This is obstruction.

Fact witnesses like Mr. Kent and Mr. Taylor are providing testimony to their knowledge of the pertinent events. It is NOT their job, nor is it appropriate for them too opine on what is impeachable. That is the job of the House of Representatives.

Today’s witness was dismissed after a well-documented smear campaign because she was not OK with the alternate channels of diplomacy ordered up by Mr. Trump.

None of the Republican arguments in defense of Mr. Trump so far have been in defense of his actions. We are only getting defamation of character, process arguments, and conspiratorial conjecture. Where’s the defense?

bishopsboy

Dear bkn, now you're asking the wrong questions. The question we need answered is what treason, bribery, or high crimes and misdemeanors did President Trump commit? So far, the Pelosi-Schiff show trial answer is none based on their star witness testimonies. Also, if the Ukrainian President who was on the call has publicly and repeatedly stated there was no quid pro quo, why are we having these hearings? If the "victim" says there was no wrongdoing, why is he not believed, but some deep state hearsay is? Are you Democrats just plan stupid or suffering from mass TDS?

bknjholl

Mr. Trump committed bribery by attempting to illegally withhold duly allocated funds for the security of Ukraine for the purpose of helping "dig up dirt" on one of his political rivals.

Mr. Trump continues to obstruct justice by illegally ordering members of his administration not to testify or provide documentation requested by Congress.

The president of Ukraine couldn't admit to the extortion for fear that the funding would not have been received.

In this instance, Democrats are correct.

bishopsboy

So dear bkn, you're saying the Ukrainian President, who was the presumed victim, is lying about the whole thing? You're really going to accept third or fourth party hearsay over an actual eyewitness' testimony? That's why none of the Trumpers are going to abandon him. Trump raised $3.1M and gained 100k volunteers on Wednesday because of this nonsense. Those numbers are going to keep going up as long this farce hearing goes on. You Democrats would be much better off just walking away from deranged Schiff, but if you want to hand both Houses of Congress and the Presidency over to the Republicans in 2020, be my guest.

billnonymous

bknjholl, you and the rest of the Democrats have made one thing perfectly clear. You have nothing. All three Democrat start witnesses have admitted aid was delivered with NO conditions. So all three Democrat star witnesses have just destroyed your argument for you. Please tell me the law that Trump is breaking by asking his staff not to testify. I can't find a liberal on the planet who can cite this mythical, fictional law they swear is true. I highly doubt you can either. Keep trying though, you're doing a great job of convincing yourselves. The rest of the US, not so much.

bknjholl

BB, the Ukrainian President is sitting right beside Mr. Trump. The national security of his nation depends on the funds being released. He says he’s not being pressured while at the same time is in negotiations with CNN for an interview with Fareed Zacharia where he would have announced that he would do Mr. Trump’s bidding by announcing an investigation. Boom, the whistleblower report drops, the funds are released (not because Mr. Trump releases them but because the DOD determines that Mr. Trump is holding the funds illegally) and the interview with Zacharia is cancelled. Do the math.

Bribery? Mr. Trump illegally withheld congressionally approved funding desperately needed by Ukraine in order to extract a personal favor. This is textbook… and exactly what Mr. Trump himself has admitted to.

The Democrats are doing pretty well too. Flipped VA legislature, flipped the KY governorship, have made large gains in statehouses across the country continuing the electoral successes from last year’s elections. Stay tuned…

Billo: the Democrats are building a rock solid case for impeachment. The evidence for attempted bribery and extortion of a foreign sovereign power for personal political purpose is clear. The constitutional remedy is impeachment. Impeachment is a political process not a criminal one. No laws need to be broken. The only penalty is removal from office (not the death penalty as suggested by Nikki Haley). Mr. Trump will be free to return to private life and resume the life of a billionaire.

billnonymous

bknjholl, read this twice, the aid to Ukraine was ***already appropriated***, so Trump had NO authority to hold it. ONLY a vote from Congress could have changed the payments. Trump could **never** have used it for the dreaded quid pro quo that the Democrats accused him of before switching their “battle cry of the day,” “bribery”, which he also could not do for the very same reason. You can’t bribe people with money you don’t control. Regardless, the aid was delivered without conditions and as required by federal law. No one disputes this, including the three witnesses thus far.

If you listen to Schiff and Pelosi and the entire fake news media, they would make it seem Trump had that power when they know he did NOT. They lie by omission to their very own base because they know their base (including you) will happily believe whatever they are told is fact and are too lazy and complacent to question or discover things independently. Their TDS justifies their warped reasoning.

bknjholl

Billo, this is what is known as the "Sideshow Bob" defense. It first appeared in the Simpsons back in the 90's. Fact is, attempted bribery is indeed, you guessed it, an actual crime and is literally in the constitution as an impeachable offense. Yes, this defense is just as silly as it was in the show. Here's the quote:

“Attempted murder (bribery), really, what is that? Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?” — Sideshow Bob

billnonymous

bkn, none of your nonsense changes a single TRUTH about my post. A sideshow is what you put on every time you have your face rubbed in your own hypocrisy or can not refute the truth of the matter!

bknjholl

Billo... and again I say, your constant concern about hypocrisy is a fools errand, a false argument that adds nothing to the discussion. At best, the truth of your argument is that hypocrisy happens. This is, sadly, very true on both sides of the door. Carry on.

DeftCurmudgeon

She was an employee and it didn't matter what she was or wasn't "OK" with. She attempted to undermine her boss and was fired for it.

It's no more complicated than that.

newshound

You'd think after decades of civil service the Ambassador would know "elections have consequences" especially when you "rock the boat" with a new captain aboard.

bknjholl

Newsy, Elections have consequences, in that we agree. As I recall, the last two elections have turned more and more statehouses blue in addition to giving Democrats the majority in the House. Those folks in the House were put there specifically to put the clamps on Mr. Trump. Mission being accomplished.

bishopsboy

Dear bkn, the mission you’re accomplishing is re-electing President Trump, which is pleasing to many of us. By 2024, the Democratic Party will be headed to the dustbin of history where it belongs.

bknjholl

Deft, that would have been understandable but it's not what happened. Masha was villifed. They spread lies and innuendos about her to try to get her to resign. She didn't, then they fired her for (no) cause. She didn't even know what was going on.

bknjholl

BB... pass the popcorn. This will be interesting.

bishopsboy

Dear, bkn, do you want extra butter or salt on the popcorn?

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